Well to your “You need to go read Jay’s article” was in my 1st line! i.e. “Read both articles and thought about this a bit.”

Also, yes there are NUMBERS to healing, it is CLEARLY not as cut and dry as with DPS. More is always more. I even read a post on a site where he made a Patchwork fight, Heavy movement and moderate movement fight to get some more ‘live’ stat weights. This kind of work is VERY hard to do in healing because you would have to factor in how many times someone steps in crap; some healers have a lot of instant casts/Hot based healing which supports movement fights.

With healing, as in my example and some others show the more output not always = more effective healz. If I have 15% over heal, an output increase may serve to increase this and not be as helpful.

“You need a certain base amount of spirit equal to the amount needed to sustain a basic “rotation” of short CDs and whatnot and from there its probably good to just go intellect.”

Math please, or as you said probably better? This is what you feel?? Divine Hymn is a HUGE part of my healing AND over heal. Increased output can just increase my over heals OR in a severe damage phase actually increase effective healing!

Also, some fights have VERY damage intensive phases and light phases and you need throughput for those phases. The boss Spiritbinder (Troll) is one where the mechanics skew regen talents a lot.

As we gear up, everybody gains more health. The 10% more output gets used a lot better later on. You do not worry as much if everybody is topped off if they still have enough health to survive.

Also, each healing class has different needs and styles! Druids always have seemed to have better mana regen/use do to the nature of HoT healing. My friend is our Druid healer and he has a shaman healer also. He just today said he lets a tank go lower in health because his mastery causes larger healz based on the targets health! And he feels Shaman’s regen abilities are so much better than his Pali/priest and even his druid! making spirit lower in priority.

Also, as a Priest, would not our priority change if I use inner Fire or Inner Will?? Using flat math that throughput is better that regin/mana would support Inner Fire all the time. However, keeping spirit and switching in a fight gives us the ability to switch ourselves from mana conserve to throughput!

How about Disc? Their shield rapture proc’s are based off SPIRIT now. Your MATH regen does not take that into account. This will regenerate a LOT more mana over a fight than basic math shows. Shaman’s totem if based off spirit. Did you account for that? How about every crit they get returns mana?

This adds variables to your math that are not accounted for. For DPS, they base math of each class and spec. So far, that has not been done in the math here.

What a lot are saying is that flat math will not pan out in a healing model and cover all situations.

“The only difference with healers is that there’s a lot of faulty logic floating around.” This is so true because healing is such a fluid game. It is even subject to play styles and class mechanics. AND stupidity of dps! lol

What this leaves us to use is how it feels.

But I am limited because: “Your post is filled with a lot of old “healerisms” used to defuse rational argument.” However the rational arguments does not involve using the variables mentioned.

Math is needed but falling on basic math can not be used ALONE as the end all logic!

We need the math and to consider it in our choices. But you can not rule out other things just because you can not put them into a math calculation when that ‘formula’ does not take everything into it.

I went out Friday night, drank 10 Vodka/7up’s and woke up with a hangover!
Saturday I drank 10 Seagram 7/7 up’s and, again, another hangover.
Logic would dictate that the only thing that was common was the 7 up! So that is what was giving me the hangover!

DOWN WITH 7 up!!!!

“Well, I don’t think this math reflects the real world. So I’m just going to keep doing what I think feels right and ignore the math.”

Healing is still numbers, so if you have another conclusion, that’s fine, you just need math to back it up. You can make reasonable assumptions that can at least somewhat approximate the real world (for instance, Jay allows for a fairly hefty amount of overhealing). No theorycrafting is perfect – even DPS theorycrafting is often from the basis of a patchwerk encounter that never happens (anymore) in the real world, and DPSers have to make real decisions about which spells to use, and yet that theorycrafting is still widely accepted.

The only difference with healers is that there’s a lot of faulty logic floating around.

In truth, I was a bit hesitant to post my reply due to length, as well. Apologies, Derevka, for trying to make the comments section of your blog into an EJ thread. >.<

You yourself don’t really show the math behind the throughput there… you instead what if’ed “better playing” . Although I’m not going to argue with you here since more healing might have avoided the scenario as well as you said (every coin has 2 sides).

But what I have experienced is that healers do a lot of overhealing now days. In my opinion we healers should focus more on reducing our overhealing than maxing throughput that usually only adds to the overhealing. Best way in my opinion is to go for more longlivity.

I might again be wrong and only try to convince you and myself because I really just want to go back to the spell level downgrading from vanilla

Sure side by side 3 heals vs. 10% healing sounds like int. is the obvious choice.
But I doubt it’s that black and white all the time. The timing of the 3 heals can be a difference between wipe or kill.

Some fights have real healing spikes that drain your mana… you go OOM and then 1 min later your back on 70% mana due to mana cooldowns or fight mechanic (considering the stone guardians HC that we did yesterday). I was OOM got mana enough for a guardian + 1 heal saving a tank. 2 sec afterwards we had 100 tiles lit and my shaman m8 got his tide back and we were back in the game…

1000% more healing wouldn’t have saved us there the mana for the extra heal did. But then again I’ve been in fights where I had all the mana in the world but tanks died anyways because the shear dmg taken by them and my heals weren’t enough (here we can question could we have played better with cooldowns etc).

I honestly believe healing can’t be theorycrafted perfectly like DPS might be able to be. Considering theorycrafting is always made in a perfect situation and healing never is. There are too many variables. A general understanding of stat priority and impact is key to tailor fit to your own healer in our raid and setup. Here is where you can call me a noob for not understanding (I would be glad if you did since I want to aspire to be the best fuckin’ priest there is)

Side note..
I would be really cool to see a huge mega massive calculation taking everything in consideration and I mean EVERYTHING… the theorycraft of doom if you will.

All healers gear/spec and stat weight
All dps gear/spec and stat weight
All tanks gear/spec and stat weight
All the possible crit’s based on stats
All healing habits of all healers and cooldown usage and overlapping of abilities etc.
All habits of players for example if you have a DPS that always is #1 on fights in DPS but generally take much more dmg than all other DPS players.

I could go on but you get the point…